redlights and siren in personal vehicle?

[firedawg43]

I belong to a volunteer service in WI. SOPs state that we can not have red lights and/or siren. Does anyone else on a volunteer service have those in their personal vehicle? and how would one go about changing that? any ideas?

[BURNSEMS]

I will keep this short and Sweet, DONT,,, It has been my experiance over several years that Lights and Siren on Personel Vehicles are of Limited Use and only add to the Large chance of a Accident in Which your Dept can be Liable,, Do some research,, Next time you get an Alarm Drive the Speed Limit stop at all Stop Signs and see how much time is changed... we found that our members only saved 2 min getting to the station,,, and after a accident that cost our Dept a great cost in Money and reputation we stoped it all togeather... On another Dept it was allowed and Members Ran Nuts until the Highway Patrol Started stopping and ticketing members,,, The Dept I am on now ONLY Chief Officers have any type of Light and Siren... I use to be the Biggest advocate for Lights and Sirens and Had them all over my Vehicle I was probanly as close to being chief WOOOWOOO AS IT COMES,,, now I only have what the Dept requires as Chief and only use it when I stop at scenes or Have to park on the road.

[EMS_Rookie]

We can have dashlights (red/white lights only i think) in ours, and sirens. However I think they're more for warning than "Get out of my way.", not sure though. I know we have a medic with a full lightbar.

It wouldn't matter much anyway. It seems that people around here don't have enough sense to get out of the way for an engine or a squad unless you're right on top of them and hitting the air horn or yelp.

[Paramark14]

EMS 1st responders here use green lights and vol. FF use blue. In my experience their use does not save that much time and it increases the potential for an accident, instead of having one or two emergency vehicles responding you end up having 4,5,6 etc. and thats a big risk to public safety.

Mark
EMTP
Indiana

[Lt.2]

Our dept. allows the use of lights and sirens on personel vehicles as long as they meet the requirements of P.A. 300. All officers are required to have them due to the fact that we are spread out and the closest officer can respond to assume command. There is a one year probationay period that can be extended before new volunteers can have them on thier vehicles. We have also suspended use if there is a p.d. or credible statement of misuse. We also have a no response procedure unless authorized by the incident commander. So far we have had no problems with response. I am also going to tell you that I rarely use mine anymore except when a life safety issue(people trapped, extrication) or large incident (occupied dwelling) call paged. I cannot tell other departments what to do, but I can safely say with experience that for those dept's who do not allow thier members to use lights and sirens and assume that everyone is still driving the speed limit and stopping at stop signs that they are sorely mistaken.

[EMS_Rookie]

Paramark, was that to me?

The reason we're allowed to use them here is because it's a lot easier for some of use to respond straight from home and to the scene. Going up to the station and then leaving would take too long. My turnout gear is in the trunk of my car.

Besides, we don't have that many intersections to go through. I can only think of one to be exact.

By the way.. I'm not advocating someone buying a dashlight and mounting a siren in their personal and speeding through intersections or passing cars on the road like maniacs. http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/smile.gif

[NCRSQ751]

We use red lights in personal vehicles. Our state's laws only allow sirens in the vehicles of Chiefs and Assistant Chiefs.

Most of our personnel use them as our response area is enormous (the whole county) and to not do so would create a terrible lag in response. I don't see a need to debate that issue, but if you want to change the situation in WI, you need to have something put in your vehicle & traffic law to allow it.

------------------
Susan Bednar
Captain - Forsyth Rescue
North Carolina Strike Force 1

[FF.FOREVER]

Here we go again antoher emergency light issue. I believe that if are going to give your time and life to help others than you should be able to use some kind of warning device. Maybe not a siren but some kind of light is always helpful. I run a dashmiser plus. The light has 2 stobes. I have mine with a full red lense and the other half red and white. I also have 2 strobes in the grill. I find it hard to believe when I see people write and say that no one should be using light because it confuses traffic. If people payed attention to what they are doing and reconise the light and just pull to the side life would be a lot eaiser, but then you got those jackasses and old people that just don't pay attention. Just remember that your not a emergency vechile and that you don't have the right-of-way. Your just asking for permission for the right-of-way. Well good luck to you all.

[EMT832]

I spoke to a friend of mine who is an EMT on a volunteer ambulance service that services some parts of New York City and upstate NY. They have red lights and sirens in their Personal vehicles(PV), as mandated in NY law that all emergency vehicles that carry emergency persnel and equipment need adequte visual warning devices and some type of siren. The way his system works, all members PVs are first response vehicles with trauma bags, O2, and AEDs. they all have portable radios. The paramedics carry ALS gear as well. Their ambulances are taken to the scene by a driver which is designated to pick up the ambulance prior to the call. This way, the response time is less than 3 minutes. In a serious emergency every second counts. If a pt suffers cardiac arrest, after 6-8 minutes the chance of survival drops to less than 10% if the pt is not defibrilated.
I do think a light and siren response puts people at risk and should require good judgement. Anybody known to drive dangerously should not have one.
In my town we respond to pager calls( 2nd crew or additional manpower- the first crew is on duty in quarters, sometimes more people are in quarters and we don't need pagers) using blue lights which are emergency/courtesy lights. The other drivers give us their right of way upon seeing the light but they can be ticketed for failing to yield the right of way. The right is not ours automaticly. I use more caution when responding in my PV because i don't have a siren and much lesss lights than our ambulances.
ps- the captain is suposed to be allowed to have a red light and siren in his PV.

[This message has been edited by EMT832 (edited May 18, 2000).]

[sthncross]

We'd get shot for this in Qld. Not only by the police but be the service.

But personally, in my area, they would be of very little use. The introduction of AMPDS dispatch protocols has seen the rise of code 1 responces rise so high the public take litte or no notice of the units themselves. If lights & sirens were used on a personal car there would be no realistic improvement.

I can get to the station on a call in on a rostered day off as fast as we respond when we are on call of a night.

[Nick SBFD 6]

I work for a service 1 day a week, but I live about a mile and a half from the station, on my days off I respond to second calls, or requests for assistance from the paid crew. The only time I use my red light (a FS firebream, w/ mirrors) is at 8am and 4pm because I have to drive right through the biggest traffic jam in Maine to get the rig. People are great about letting you through and I see a great improvement in times, but that is the ONLY time!, not in hte middle of the night or at 11am when everyone is already at work, our town managers office window is right on main st and he keeps a watchful eye on us, so far no complaints.

[Grabs]

Our Vol. Fire Depts. are allowed to run Lights and sirens as long you are a state cert. firefighter or EMT. the lights have to be able to be seen 360 deg. and be at the highest point of the veh. I feel the lights are a good thing but you have to use some common sense when running code. It doesn't give you the right to do mach-1 down the street, you are asking for the right of way (due regard) you don't have it. I realy don't use mine that much any more but are nice to have when needed. we also go though a EVOC class before you able to run code.But like some of the other people have stated the use of lights/sirens doesn't make that much of a diff. on responce times and does cause confusion when coming it to heavy traffic and just adds to confusion of what going on already in there drive to home/work ect.I only use my lights/siren when there is a life in danger. I see no reason to run code for a grass/dumpster fire ect..."BS" calls

TC/SS/GB

[bob1350]

First, you need to check with your State laws on volunteers responding code 3 in your State. If it is allowed, the next step would be talking with the local high sheriffs to get their input. Then comes the hard part of getting your SOP's changed by proving that as a volunteer responding code3, you can make a difference. Talk to your board directors, city council, or whatever you have. Our volunteers are stilled allowed to respond code3 in their personal vehicles. It is a privlege that should be taken very seriosly. We can make a difference. Good Luck!!

[Resqmedic]

Ok I have a light bar on my truck (haven't had a ticket since) and firmly belive they belong off the car in the house. As my partner and I sat in our ambulance at a intersection waiting and watching a responding volunteer running very confused people off the road, who were attemping to yeild to our rig. I made it a point to remember bring this very subject up agian with the chief. By the way we did finally make it to the 8 victum head on as the primary truck, the other trucks were also delayed for some reason. Thanks.

[1stResponder]

In Kentucky firefighters are allowed red/white lights (visible 360 degrees) and a siren. By law, no one can exceed the speed limit. We are allowed to proceed through red lights/stop signs after clearing the intersection. However, very few departments in this area have but 1 stop light in their entire district (only one dept. comes to mind). Personally, I am trying to make a habit of responding with lights and siren only to medical runs, structure fires, and field fires which are threatening someones home. (I carry all my equipment, medical and fire, in my personal vehicle.)

I did do a test. I started from my house and went about 10 miles over the speed limit to the fire dept. two miles away (NO lights NO siren though because it was late at night and I was NOT on an actual run). I then drove home going the speed limit. Saved 36 seconds. I did not have stop lights or stop signs and it is pretty much a stright shot. But it kinda helped put into perspective that driving fast doesn't get you where you want to go as fast as you think it does.