I

[IAMedic]

Sorry people, but I just got off a 24, am feeling frisky and awnery (sp??). Besides, these posts have been lacking in amusement...hehe :p

www.dictionary.com states that "volunteer" means:


A person who performs or offers to perform a service voluntarily
Law: A person who renders aid, performs a service, or assumes an obligation voluntarily
Adjective: Being, consisting of, or done by volunteers
To perform or offer to perform a service of one's own free will
To do charitable or helpful work without pay


Webster's Dictionary states:


One who enters into, or offers for, any service of his own free will.

Webster's Revised Dictionary states:


Of or pertaining to a volunteer or volunteers; consisting of volunteers; voluntary; as, volunteer companies; volunteer advice.

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary states:


To offer or bestow voluntarily, or without solicitation or compulsion; as, to volunteer one's services.
To enter into, or offer for, any service of one's own free will, without solicitation or compulsion; as, he volunteered in that undertaking.


So I take it that if you fall into one of those categories, you are a considered a volunteer. Just trying to stick up for the little guy!! :p :D

Edit: P.S. I don't know why I just got the "I" in the new thread, but maybe it is an omen and will be just as popular as the [.] thread. My original title was "I am too a Volunteer".

[DrParasite]

and the point you are trying to make is....

[hageremtp]

So you fail to see a point in that, I guess the point I picked up on was that at no place in there does the dictionary mention MONEY, PAYMENT, COMPENSATION, or STIPENS. So the meanless strikes out on people getting paid and calling themselve volunteers has no backing.

Just for S's and G's I decided to look up the word volunteer too:
Main Entry: 1vol·un·teer
Pronunciation: "vä-l&n-'tir
Function: noun
Etymology: obsolete French voluntaire (now volontaire), from voluntaire, adjective, voluntary, from Latin voluntarius
Date: circa 1618
1 : a person who voluntarily undertakes or expresses a willingness to undertake a service: as a : one who enters into military service voluntarily b (1) : one who renders a service or takes part in a transaction while having no legal concern or interest (2) : one who receives a conveyance or transfer of property without giving valuable consideration
2 : a volunteer plant
3 capitalized [Volunteers of America] : a member of a quasi-military religious and philanthropic organization founded in 1896 by Commander and Mrs. Ballington Booth

Dont pass through my hometown, cause our ambulance is ran by quasi-military groupies.

[smurfe]

Hager, quick question. Do y'all carry nitr-ox on your trucks?
:D :D :D :D :D :D



Smurfe:D

ps. I do hope and pray this post gets the legendary status as the (.) post also, but I doubt it will ever reach the Girlfriend getting tips post! :eek:

[kghemtp]

But ya never know because the topic of "volunteer" is good for a lot of miles, and if nothing else but to expand on the thread title "I"

[DrParasite]

I really don't want to get into an arguement over this but I feel the need to point a couple things out:
Originally posted by IAMedic
www.dictionary.com states that "volunteer" means:


[1]A person who performs or offers to perform a service voluntarily
[2]Law: A person who renders aid, performs a service, or assumes an obligation voluntarily
[3] Adjective: Being, consisting of, or done by volunteers
[4] To perform or offer to perform a service of one's own free will
[5] To do charitable or helpful work without pay


1) technically, you are sent to the calls by the 911 dispatcher, and don't offer your service voluntarily.
2) this is true, and I'm not going to dispute it. however, if i work full time for an EMS organization, and chose to work for them, then I, too, am volunteering to do that job. it's my choice, and i do it voluntarily. If I wanted to, I could just become a baker. but i chose to voluntarily be an EMT, and i recieve a monetary compensation for it. am I a volunteer or not?
3) no relevance in this context
4) comment #2
5) it says "without pay." that means you don't recieve money. it says that very clearly, and this is your defination, not mine.
Originally posted by IAMedic
Webster's Dictionary states:


One who enters into, or offers for, any service of his own free will.

see above #2.
Originally posted by IAMedic
Webster's Revised Dictionary states:


Of or pertaining to a volunteer or volunteers; consisting of volunteers; voluntary; as, volunteer companies; volunteer advice.

this doesn't apply in this context
Originally posted by IAMedic
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary states:


To offer or bestow voluntarily, or without solicitation or compulsion; as, to volunteer one's services.
To enter into, or offer for, any service of one's own free will, without solicitation or compulsion; as, he volunteered in that undertaking.


again, see #2
Originally posted by IAMedic
So I take it that if you fall into one of those categories, you are a considered a volunteer. Just trying to stick up for the little guy!! :p :D

Edit: P.S. I don't know why I just got the "I" in the new thread, but maybe it is an omen and will be just as popular as the [.] thread. My original title was "I am too a Volunteer". [/B]
what little guy are you sticking up for? no one was picking on a little guy. are you trying to start a argument?

your very definition is of a volunteer (see #5) says they do something "without pay." if your organizations pays it's volunteers, then that's their decision. if you still consider yourself a volunteer even though you recieve "pay" (albeit a small amount) for volunteering, then that's your perogative. you can call yourself paid too, and, to be honest, I couldn't care less. it's what you call yourself.

just enjoy what you do, and forget about the stupid labels. sorry this is so long, i just wanted to respond to every part of the original post (I like being complete in my responses)

[smurfe]

oh yeah, this is gonna be good!



Smurfe:D

[intraining]

:)

[IAMedic]

What I am saying that if this is not your career and you don't make a living doing it, then you are a volunteer.

Edited: I was getting heated, so I edited and will take it up in the PM channels...didn't want the thread to get locked down.

[kghemtp]

Let's keep this a good, clean fight kids!

[hageremtp]

Hager, quick question. Do y'all carry nitr-ox on your trucks?

As a Matter of Fact, Smurfe, We do carry Nitro-Nox on our trucks! Two hits for you, Two hits for me!!:p

[DrParasite]

Originally posted by IAMedic
What I am saying that if this is not your career and you don't make a living doing it, then you are a volunteer.


ok, let me see if I get this right. hypothetically speaking, if i work as a butcher/baker/candlestick maker, and I work part time as an EMT for a commercial ambulance company. I don't make a living by doing it, that's what my full time job is for. does that make me a volunteer EMT?

or a more realistic question. I'm a full time EMT for Rural/Metro (a private for-profit ambulance company). we provide EMS to a major metropolitan area. I take the civil service exam, and get hired as a full time firefighter. i decided to stay part time or per-diem at Rural/Metro, both for a little extra $$$ and just because i like ambulance work. again, i'm not working there full time, i'm a firefighter, that's my career. Am I still a paid EMT, or am I volunteer?

or how about this. I'm a banker. I have a degree in accounting. I decide I want to help people, so I join a local ambulance squad. they pay for all my training, and I am "on call" once a week. I recieve no compensation for it at all, except for the occassional t-shirt and squad uniform. Am I a volunteer EMT, or not?

oh, and for those of you who are worried about this getting ugly, you won't get a problem from my end. I'm just using the information that is being provided to me by other posters

[IAMedic]

Okay, how about this?? If your state statute says that your department is a "volunteer" and not a "career" service, then you are a volunteer.

[Weruj1]

OH IA !!!!!!!!!!!I could feel this brewin since the last thread ...and ORNERY aint the word for this round robin ding,ding, go agian banter ..........everyone to their neutral corners ! LOL

[ffemt1361]

Originally posted by smurfe
Hager, quick question. Do y'all carry nitr-ox on your trucks?
:D :D :D :D :D :D


After the night I just had I need some too please.

[EMSsquirrel]

I have to admit, Dr. Parasite's got a point about one thing: most of the time (unless, say, the Army made you do it), we all volunteer to become EMTs and paramedics. We "enter into service" (paid or unpaid) "of our own free will." We either choose to join a volunteer squad, or choose to undertake the hiring process for a paid fire department or EMS agency.

This reminds me of a quote I heard regarding the fire service (and I'm sure I'll butcher it), which went something like: "The only time you volunteer in this job is when you take the oath. After that, everything is in the line of duty."

-squirrel

[eyeOthestorm]

Oooooooohhhh IAMedic... ya just had to go there didn't cha??? LOL.
I brought my popcorn and I'll buy the first round of nitro-nox for the house!! :D

[smurfe]

Well, this thread died a lot sooner than I thougth it would :rolleyes:


Smurfe:D

[IAMedic]

No one else is interested?? Ah, C'mon peoples......lol :D

[kghemtp]

Volunteer is without pay, call is generally paid per call or some kind of standby rate, and career is full-time shift work. Doesn't get much simpler than that, folks. We voluntarily get into this field of EMS, and we opt to go to work or go to the station or go to an ambulance call in much the same way we opt to get out of bed or go to the fridge for a midnight snack.

[hageremtp]

So can a person make a career out of being on call/paid per call? Can you be a career volunteer? Can you volunteer for a career of being on call?

[eyeOthestorm]

sure if you are independantly wealthy. :D

[ALSfirefighter]

Man, what did I miss?

If you do not receive a pyacheck...and you are doing it on your own...you are a volunteer. If you get a check, you get paid to do a service, so basically you can be full time, part time or per diem. Whatever flips you boat.

If we really want to get into a good conversation, look up the definitions of "professional."

As far as some of thre replies...

1) You are offering your services voluntarily. Dispatch calls for a unit, not you. You the individual is offering a service "voluntarily" meaning you are getting nothing out of it but your satisifaction regardless of what it is to you. If your not in the building and they page out for a crew they are paging for someone to voluntarily answer the call.

Dr Parasite your argument about how voluntarily becoming an emt and voluntarily working for a company...to me is pointless. If thats the case everyone in the world are all volunteers. Unless your in a prison performing hard labor, or a bum on the street who does nothing, your take pertains to everyone. When I walk in the door to my FD, and private's I work for, I CHOSE a profession.

Either way I still don't see what the clear cut argument that this was suppose to lead to or cause. But either way I got my 2 cents in and thats good enough for me.
_________________________________
IACOJ Bureau of EMS Chairman

[HadleyFire]

(First, read this with a friendly but riteously-indignant tone - there is no anger)

Whoa, big fella! The question of being "professional" has not been part of this thread. The topic has been volly vs anything else.

I may not be a "career" firefighter, but I am a professional. Here in the state of Michigan, we are required to have the IDENTICAL schooling as anyone on a career department. We have to take the same EMS courses to obtain the same licenses, be it MFR, EMT-B, or EMT-P.

For the record, I am not a volunteer. We are a paid-on-call department, and I'm proud to say that we're paid a decent wage. Did I join the department for the money? No. Do I need the money? Yep! My kids like to eat 3 times a day (at least!) EVERY day. I tried the "it's not your day to eat" routine, but my six year old told me "Dad, that's NOT funny!"

Doesn't the term "Paid On Call" cover the middle ground between career and volunteer? Most of the departments in the SE Michigan area that I know of are POC. I also know of many fire departments further north in the state that are truly volunteer, as well as some true volunteer MFR agencies within my own county. (My definition of volunteer is NOT getting paid for your response - my name isn't Webster, but I think most people would call that a good working definition)

Finally, read my signature line below. It's been on everyone of my posts. This is not a new subject for this Paid On Call Firefighter/MFR/Haz Mat Operations responder.

Thanks,

Jim

[ALSfirefighter]

Hadley,

First, I didn't say anything other then if you would like a good conversation, look up the word professional, and how it could start a debate.

Second, I never said you or anyone else isn't a professional, you self interpreted my post, re-read it again.

___________________________________
IACOJ Bureau of EMS Chairman

[HadleyFire]

ALS-

I can see what you mean. I did re-read your post, and I see where I took your comment about "looking up the definition of professional" to be directly related to THIS thread, not as a separate topic. I never thought, however, that you were calling anybody unprofessional.

That being said, I still stand by my comments. And I LOVE a godd debate at least as much as anyone else. My rule for a debate has always been that you need to be sure that you could argue the OTHER side of the debate if you needed too. That's when you're really prepared for the topic!

Thanks, and stay safe.

Jim