Union in EMS

[DrParasite]

just out of curiosity, what are the benefits to unionizing in EMS?

I am an employee of a combination department. we have 5 or 6 full time employees, and a handful of per diem employees (I am one of the per diems). We are a BLS ambulance service getting about 6000-7000 call a year, with 80% of the calls being answered by the paid staff. we also bill for all transports.

anyways, what (if any) would be the benefits of unionizing?

keep in mind, I have no intent of starting a union there, or anything like that, I'm just curious what the benefits would be.

[Dave1983]

I guess the same as any union. The ability to negotiate wages, work conditions, vacations, health insurance and so on and get a written contract. If none of these is an issue now, I dont see a need.

The department I work for didnt unionize untill the late 80's. Up till that time everything has been a "gentlemans agreement" and things were fine. But, a new Chief came in and he decided to start cutting vacation time and only giving COLA raises. So the IAFF was brought in. Problem solved. ;)

[SPFTMEDIC]

To protect what you currently have. And also to lay everything out between administration and workers. What I mean is that when a contract is in place both sides of the table have to agree before they sign. As an at-will employee the other side can do with you what they want.

[LouisianaMedic]

They have there good and bad points... Some services may need unions, but a union can also cripple a service too.. cut certian benefits.. If you can get good benefits and pay without one you are better off not joining one...

[croaker260]

So far I havent heard anyone mention the effect a Union has in the medicine a service provides. I have seen Unions keep bad medics from being fired, and use changes in protocols as barganing chips...tyeing up advanceing the SWO in some cases for months or years.

Thoughts and/or comments?

As a side note, has anyone seen a union include in its contract something that furthers the medical side of things, especially a fire union (IAFF)?

[DaSharkie]

The effectiveness of any and every union, from the local level on up, is dependent upon the individual members and the folks at the top.

I am not exactly a big fan of unions (having been a member of two hasn't exactly changed that opinion) but they have a use in some situations.

Beware what you wish for though. If you have difficulty with a union and regret the decision, getting rid of the union is MUCH more difficult than getting one in.

[parafire81]

I know of atleast two non-fire based EMS systems here in Iowa that are Unionized....both I believe through IAFF.

One is West Des Moines EMS...which is a city department seperate from Police and Fire (although they do base out of fire stations).

The Other is Johnson County Ambulance Service in Iowa City....a county operated EMS system.

Both have very agressive protocols, excellent equipment, strong paramedics, and probably some of the best pay scales and benefit packages around. They generally don't have a high degree of turn-over, so I think they are pretty happy with it.

[Medic818]

Two things to remember IF you choose to unionize:
1) Make sure 100% of your employees are onboard 100%!
2) Choose a union that will meet your needs.
Some expierence I've had with EMS unions is extensive; I've seen a union come into an agency that was on the verge of moral collapse and rejuvinate the employees. I've also seen the same union come into another agency and DESTROY morale; the orginizers (myself and 2 others) were fired the day the agency was served...And the union did nothing.

May I recommend you look into your local IAFF...Their union is run by the same guys doing the job, not a paper-pusher that sits in a cozy office.

Good luck, and make sure that you can sleep at night...you'll need it when the BS starts...


818

[Plattsfire2]

My former service went through this while I was there in my final year, voting in the union. IAEP. That has been my only union experience, and it wasn't a good one.
I won't go into detail about all the problems it brought up, but the union was voted in by the 70+ employees in May of '04. Now, in Aug of '05, the company is being sold and most of the original employees have either left or are leaving. The company has been around and prospering for 40 years, and within two years of the union it is now closing it's doors.

[chicagoambo]

Without a union our job would be a low paying,grunt profession!Yeah we're 2nd class citizens being associated with a fire union(IAFF local2) but the alternative would be so much worse.Since our medics went on strike in 1980 our job has increased 3-4x in benefits and conditions(due to a great union)not due any other reason.Today our system crosses most guys to fire engines,thats progress ,good and bad.Without a union management would abuse the job to there benefit not yours.A union is a group of employees who are fed up being screwed on a daily basis by some politically connected suck hole appointed boss(supervisor,batt. chief etc.)Enough is enough and then the battles begin,good luck.All I know isI've worked for both(suburbs and city)union and non.Non union company paid lousy , bennies non existent .Union ,best pay, time off and benefits.You choose what you can afford to live with!OR WITHOUT!

[crsemt1258]

It also depends on who you work for, we work for a Village and the board members constantly change. They also seem to look at it that anyone that works for the deserves nothing. We finally Unionized with WPPA, and they got us treated like employees, rather than we should be worshiping the feet of the Village Fathers. They were even ripping employees off on Overtime and violating OT laws. So for us it was very beneficial.

[firemedic53]

I can't imagine doing this job without union representation both for bargaining and legal issues. I work for a fire dept, and we're represented by the IAFF. They have been great in both providing legal counsel for grievances and for collective bargaining. I see what happens to the non-union private providers here and it's not pretty.
I know that there are very good small to mid-size companies out there that take care of their employees, and in those cases unions may not be needed....a handshake still means something - it used to be that way in municipalities, too.
Large companies like AMR and Rural Metro are out to make a profit - you are no more important to them than a stretcher or the 6 year old wreck of a bus they have you driving around in. But at least when they screw you, you know why - money. When you work for a town/county/city, some of the elected "bosses" are very intelligent, well meaning people. There are others, however, that need to follow a trail of bread crumbs home every night and wear a football helmet to the supermarket....you absolutely need some leverage with these people - our management has rights, but they know, through experience, that there will be consequences if they step over a certain line. That line may be different depending on where you work, but there is always a line, and you need someone to be an advocate for you when that happens.

[ffmedic1006]

We are currently union also, but our union has been giving us the shaft for qute some time now. We are SEIU and they are just rediculous. They already told us that they represent nurses and we are just add ons. They dropped their AFL-CIO status and then decieded to raise our union dues. The protection that we get from them is a joke. My partner had a civilian complaint filed against him and it took the union rep almost 3 days to give him a half baked answer as to handle the situation. Overall I think unions are beneficial, you just need on that represents your interests, like the IAFF. Don't be fooled by the IAEP, they are just a subclass of the SEIU.

[croaker260]

The only EMS third service that I know that has been successfully represented by the IAFF is the King County medic One System, which amoung other things made it harder to be attacked by other IAFF locals...good for them for using the IAFF tactics against them!

Otherwise...I am leary of anyplace that puts union politics ahead of good patient care....and of the unions I have seen, the IAFF is the worst at that. In fact I would go so far as to say that if your in a mixed department , and your not a fire fighter, the IAFF will likely hang you out to dry in favor of any fire fighter. I dont have any specific example of that, only actions and observations of how the IAFF acts toward anyone who is not a "professional firefighter", including volunteer firefighters and of course...paramedics who are not firefighters.