Police running EMS..

[Rescuepimp]

Anyone ever here of this... A town I lived in operated like this.. The PD ran the ems. It was completely unorthox.. I thot so... Idk... It was kinda wierd, to have the pd running bus runs...


anyone else see this? pros and cons?

[emt43533]

I've seen it in a couple of places in NJ/NY. I'm not too familiar with the police model but I assume it operates much like FD/EMS model. You could have a provider who is dually licensed as an EMT/Paramedic and sworn LEO (in fact MD's entire flight system is run & staffed by State Trooper/Paramedics). In another case, the PD could hire FT EMTs/Medics to run specifically on the bus and perform no LE duties at all (the way it is in a neighboring town). Of the three emergency service orgs. FD/EMS/PD, I believe EMS generates the most revenue (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong). Realizing how much extra captial the FD can generate from also providing EMS services, it does not surprise me that PD wants a piece of the pie too.

As to it's efficacy, I can't comment because I have never been part of a dual organization between PD/EMS.

[Scotttt]

The paramedics in New Castle County, DE are part of the police department but they are not LEOs.

http://www.co.new-castle.de.us/publicsafety/home/webpage1.asp

[gunnyv]

In Michigan there are many PSO depts, mostly in small cities. Some have officers crosstrained LEO/FF/EMT, others contract the EMS, a couple have a single Medic/FF in the station to pull the ambulance, and a PSO meets them at the scene to drive.

Ingham and Genessee Counties Sheriff's Dept's have paramedic divisions, non-transport. For the most part, they are in less populated areas served by volunteer fire depts.

[Lump532]

In Western New York the town of Tonawanda runs paramedic fly cars that are part of the police department but are not sworn officers. They usually run two medics in each vehicle with two vehicles. Each vehicle has two sets of gear so that each medic can handle a call on their own.

All of the sworn officers are Certified First Responders that are authorized by their medical director to act as EMT's when under the direction of a medic. They also respond to EMS calls when EMD requires first responders.

The town has a contract with a local privet ambulance service to provide BLS ambulances for transport. If the call is BLS they will handle, if not then the Medic rides in with them. If there is not a town medic available for the call then that ambulance service sends a paramedic ambulance "as the town medics" to handle the call.

[Weruj1]

2 counties over the EMS is provided by the Sherrifs Dept. to show what a STEPCHILD they are see if you can find them here >> http://www.sandusky-county.org/

[FFEMTMills]

My fire department is poc. We are all trained as emts and then the police function as cop/medics. Its very different but it works and gets the job done. Any questions just ask.

[Quadrider400]

I'm ready bet it cuts down on the I want a ride downtown calls.... I wonder though when asking an OD patient what they took how honest they would be ...

[SgtScott31]

Some airport departments (such as mine) are a good example of PSO's (Public Safety Officers).

We do everything medical except transport. All of our officers are cross-trained as police officers and firefighters. About 1/3 (or 22) of us are licensed EMT's/IV's with the rest being certified First Responders. I teach the D.O.T. First Responder to all new-hires who are not EMT's.

Since we have ALS transport provided so close by Metro Nashville FD/EMS, we only do BLS at the airport (epi, albuterol, combi-tubes, etc), but we do have our own medical direction and protocols.

[SgtScott31]

I'm ready bet it cuts down on the I want a ride downtown calls.... I wonder though when asking an OD patient what they took how honest they would be ...

That is a problem sometimes because we respond to medical calls in police uniform. Especially if alcohol is involved.

[RLFD14]

This is common in my general area, where there are some municipalities up to and over 100,000 population that are saving cash with all-volunteer FDs.

If the FDs covered medicals, they would never get any sleep, have retention struggles, and response times obviously are not as good as career FDs unless they had some sort of a duty shift rotation.

However, nearly all of the afore-mentioned municipalities already have career LEOs, who are in their cars out in the field. Their response times are therefore impressive. They usually are FRs although some are EMTs, they stabilize the pt and control the scene until private EMS paramedics show up.

I think it is a good model for these cases, but obviously it can be argued all ways.

[1835Wayne]

Around here, the LEO's have a habit of passing the FD, ambulance and anyone else to make the scene first. Then they stand around in a gaggle and jawjack.

[pollybeebe]

sounds a little fishy to me- shoot em up and then patch em up medicine really never works to me??????

[FireMedAS]

sounds a little fishy to me- shoot em up and then patch em up medicine really never works to me??????

As opposed to "put out the fire and then patch em up" medicine? If you can make fire and EMS compatable, I see no reason why a police/EMS model can't work. In fact, from what I've seen, the average LEO projects a higher level of professionalism than the average FF.

[dday05]

I can understand having the pd trained in EMS, especially when lets say your squad is on a run or you're responding from the ER they would get there quick and start pt.care. The vol dept I run with is very short handed in the day time, we usually end up with just 2 people. Our pd runs on most of our calls and the help we get from them is outstanding! They have saved us a few times helping to move lg pts.and just help packaging the pt up for tx. They carry AED'S in their cruisers and we're talking them into becoming FR'S and that's great.

Now a pd that wants to run ems just to put the fd out of business our what not ,I'd have a problem with that. We're all here for one reason to help the public the best way we can. T hat's it for now.BE SAFE

[ndvfdff33]

Only time you ever see police on a medical scene here is if its domestic or someone takes the big one...Otherwise they aren't around

[Res45cuE]

Bloomfield PD in North NJ used to run EMS until recently. They still may, but I had heard that a private service was taking EMS over. Elizabeth PD has the Ambulance Service Bureau, where civilian EMT's render BLS service under the supervision of the PD. The Elizabeth job is a great civil-service job, where the EMT's make decent money w/ great benefits. Other than that, I believe most PD's just run FR-type EMS, if any at all.

[FCRescue53]

OK, how about this:

My county (population 90K or so, 670 square miles) has a private ambulance that covers the entire county with ~6 ambulances. Their response time averages 8 in the incorporated cities, but can (and often is) be up to 20-25 minutes if the trucks are all busy and they have to bring one up from LR or get mutual aid. There is one city with a paid FD, and the rest of the county is volunteer/PPC fire districts. All of the districts but one require FR for membership. Over all of that is my department, which is part of the Sheriff's office. We are deputies, but not LEO's, and provide the volunteer FD's with the things that they can't afford to buy/train themselves, and specialize in all things "Rescue." We maintain 6 stations in the county (4 co-located with the volunteer FD's), 4 with ambulances and crash trucks, and the other two with specialized rescue gear and a crash truck.

So, a call goes out. If its outside of the one big city, it is dispatched by the SO comm center. They dispatch a deputy LEO (if available), the private ambulance company, tone the local FD, and tone my squad to standby. The local FDs are almost always FOS, and they radio SO and let them know if the incident is something that will require more than the paid ambulance service can handle. Depending on the FD, squad members may go ahead and 96 to the station or the scene, depending on the location of the incident and where that member is. When squad goes out, we assist the local FD with whatever it is that they need and try not to get in the way of anything else. Many of our members are also FF with the local FD, so there is a good deal of give and take.

So, at one scene, we can have a deputy LEO, State Police, private ambulace company, local FD response, our response which can include another (public) ambulance, and mutual aid responders in POV's.

Kinda makes those ICS classes useful, doesn't it?

[BfloEMT14216]

Like Lump said,

In Western New York we have the Town of Tonawanda that has it's own municipal Paramedic force that responds to calls. They have two ALS equipped Suburbans quartered at the police station that respond for EMS calls. They are good at what they do, don't get me wrong.Yet, they have made the fire companies within the town too lazy. These companies don't respond for MVA's even.In this day in age, I can't think of one other town/village/city in Erie/Niagara county that a FD doesn't respond for EMS.
The Town fire companies do not respond to anything other than fire in nature, except for the Village of Kenmore Fire Department which responds to EMS Calls. These town companies, consisting of Brighton, Kenilworth, Ellwood, Sheridan Park, and River Road perhaps respond to 1,200 calls department wide if that.
I think expanding EMS to these companies would be a benefit to town residents. It's nice and all to have police officers cross trained, but having these fire companies repsond to EMS calls would be great asset for the town.

[Weruj1]

just found this ............http://www.ci.oakwood.oh.us/osafety.htm

[skipatrol8]

you wounldnt know they were cops, the ambulance just says oakwood medic, no department of safty or police. they wear different clothes too, so they get the pt responses emts get.

[Brian1023]

Boston EMS is run by Bostons finest.

[MikeWard]

Boston EMS is run by Bostons finest. If by "finest" you mean the Boston Health Commission:

http://www.bphc.org/employment/listJob.asp?id=586

they hire EMT's and train/promote paramedics from within the job.

old Boston EMS website:

http://www.bostonems.com/

___________________________________

In parts of Long Island, NY, the county law enforcement provides ALS response and transport service as a back-up to the volunteer rescue squads.

Mike

[Brian1023]

If by "finest" you mean the Boston Health Commission:

http://www.bphc.org/employment/listJob.asp?id=586

they hire EMT's and train/promote paramedics from within the job.

old Boston EMS website:

http://www.bostonems.com/

___________________________________

In parts of Long Island, NY, the county law enforcement provides ALS response and transport service as a back-up to the volunteer rescue squads.

Mike


I work with a former BEMS medic and he told me the cops ran everything. My bad.

[Piker311]

Rotterdamn NY does this

[angelsonscene]

Yes, I have in California up north Sacramento region becauce of an emergency inside EMS itself something to do with infighting and negotaiations with upper management and city being unable reaching a aggreement as to whom would respond and pricing for such a response.This is a rare case though

[RESQ9065]

On Long Island, NY the Nassau County Police Dept's Emergency Ambulance Bureau provides ALS ambulance coverage in addition to the local volunteer FDs and VACs. The ambulance medical techicians are civilian employees of the police dept. Years ago, there were also cop AMTs who manned 'patrol ambulances". Today's EAB utilizes 24 ambulances ( covers 288 sq miles, population 1.3 million) using 150 personnel. Select members are used on tactical ems team. Annual runs just over 56,000....about half the county ems workload. This service started in 1953.

Stay safe & well

[Koda209]

I am Cert. and do all three in my Town. Paid PD, Vol FD/EMS. I am the only one though. It is nice to be versatile. Other than that each dept. runs themselves.

[bossteen]

I work with a former BEMS medic and he told me the cops ran everything. My bad.

Boston EMS is a city agency under the Boston Public Health Commision, however our bargaining unit is the EMS division of the Boston Police Patrolmans Association...We are not staffed or funded by the BPD. "Back in the day" the police dept. did the patient transport in the back of a police wagon, but that was pre-1968 or so.....

[LVFD301]

Torrington CT offered and may still, PD based EMS, ran by uniformed
officers. Pretty strange when I got pulled over by them back in the 70's, pulled over by an ambulance......

[Steeda83]

South Kingstown, RI ems..aka SKEMS runs out of the police department although the medics are not police officers thats where they are stationed and if any additional help is needed the police respond, not the fire department, unless it happens to be an MVA other than that all ems is handled by SKEMS and/or South Kingstown Police

[kd5enp55]

Back in my younger days I worked in a small town in Mo. and we were Public Safety Officers. We did 8 hours of LE and then did the next 16 hours as either a FF or Paramedic. I was a certified Parmedic when I was hired so that's what I did. It was pretty good setup. We worked 24 on and 72 off. I really enjoyed that.

Larry