RN to paramedic???

[chickfire13]

Hi there I am Chickie,

I am an RN in California, I am interested in finding out how to become a paramedic now that I am an RN. Do I have to go through a whole paramedic program? Can I take a review course and challenge? Is there an abbreviated and/or online program I can take? Any suggestions or ideas would be great.

Thanks so much.

[JimMccarthy]

Chickie
You would have to check with the schools in your area. I know that the school I attended, did, at one time, have a track where they would give you credit for A & P, med term, pharm, and I believe one or two other classes. Of course, it wasn't in place whe I went in.
Most schools will give you liberal arts credit and that's about it. (as far as I know).

Good Luck in your endevour!

Jimmy Mac, RN-C

[RicanMedic78]

that's actually an option thats pretty common in some parts. A lot of flight and emergency nurses are paramedics as well or choose to be more marketable with both titles. I know there are ways to challenge the paramedic exams in most states if your already an RN. I'd def do what was recommended above. Contact your state's EMS agency or DOH to see if there are such processes available where you are.

[DrParasite]

Easy. Challenge the paramedic test. or get your EMT, and ride as an EMT-RN. Once you get your paramedic (or even your EMT, I am not sure), you can become a certified MICN (mobile intensive care nurse, instead of mobile intensive care paramedic), which means you get to have as much fun as a paramedic, but at a nurses salary.

If you find a service that does critical care transports, they will be able to tell you how you can go about getting certified as an MICN.

[medic563]

It varies from state to state. Some states have a PH-RN were you would only need to take some additional classes in itmes like airway management.

From what it sounds like in your post, correct me if I'm wrong, your a relatively new RN. Although there are similarities between RN and paramedic they are two seoerate professions with two seperate mind sets and two seperate educational goals. Were as an expereinced ER nurse might be able to transition into a paramedic role relatively easily you might be best served by finidiing a program that will give you credit in areas that you have already taken and do a more complete medic program focusing on the prehospital care. You will most likely do relatively well in the program based on your past knowledge, but as you go through you will see the differences.

[firefighter6973]

In FL, your required your EMT first, then you get the option of challenging the test. I agree, check with the schools around your area and ask them.

Most nurses don't because the pay is better in the hospital. So I applauded you for your interest. You will find it is a different world.

Chuck
EMT-P

[chickfire13]

Yes I am a pretty new RN I am starting the ER training program at LA county/ USC medical center (busiest ER around me) but was previously an EMT (didn't renew so its expired) and used to be a fire explorer and did ride alongs with the paramedics so I know that it is very different,but I miss it a lot, but yeah its going to be a little bit before I can get to work on becoming a paramedic (gotta finish ER training first)

Thanks for all the input!!

[the1141man]

Easy. Challenge the paramedic test. or get your EMT, and ride as an EMT-RN. Once you get your paramedic (or even your EMT, I am not sure), you can become a certified MICN (mobile intensive care nurse, instead of mobile intensive care paramedic), which means you get to have as much fun as a paramedic, but at a nurses salary.

If you find a service that does critical care transports, they will be able to tell you how you can go about getting certified as an MICN.

K, guys...when someone prefaces a post that they are from the People's Republic of Commiefornia, you need to realize that they live and exist in a entirely different universe that bears only passing resemblance to your own.
What makes sense in your world, would never happen here...common sense has yet to be discovered (invented?) here yet.

Let's pick apart Parasite's post, because it's a prime example of what I'm talking about, and just about dead wrong in everything he says. It's not his fault--he just has never lived here and doesn't understand the unique mode of operation here in Commiefornia (aka the "Rectal-Cranial Insertion" mode)...

Easy. No, it's not...maybe elsewhere in the world, but not here.

Challenge the paramedic test OK, you can do that if you have an RN license, and can prove that your RN training included the exact same clinical and didactic training as a P-school.

Get your EMT, and ride as an EMT-RN. No such critter in California. Either you're acting as an EMT, or you're acting as an RN. You can't "be" an EMT but "borrow" from the RN scope because you have that license also. If you're being paid to be an RN, you're an RN. If you're paid to be an EMT, you can be an MD, but guess what? Yup, you're limited to EMT scope while on-duty as an EMT.

Once you get your paramedic or EMT, you can become an MICN which means you get to have as much fun as a paramedic, but at nurses' salary. Damn, so far he's .5 for 4... MICN status in CA has nothing to do with having EMT or Paramedic licensure. Oh, and MICNs here don't work ambulance...they basically run med control radio for call-ins at base hospitals. Very rarely does an MICN leave a hospital...therefore they should be called SMCNs--Stationary Medical Control Nurses. MUCH more accurate title for them. The only "paramedic-fun" an MICN gets is yacking on the radio.

Now, as for the "real scoop" on things, check out the CA EMSA Paramedic FAQs (http://www.emsa.ca.gov/Para/emtpfaq.pdf), specifically number 10:
10. How do I become a paramedic if I am currently a MD, RN, MICN, or PA?
In order to apply for a paramedic license, the following documentation must be submitted to the EMS Authority for review:
-copy of current MD, RN, MICN, or PA license;
-documentation that training is equivalent to a U. S. DOT EMT-Paramedic
National Standard Curriculum, a copy of which can be accessed at www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/ems/products.htm. A suggested way to provide this documentation is to submit a copy of your transcripts from your MD, RN, MICN or PA training, and it is highly recommended that you have also completed one of the following training courses:
-EMT I Certification
-MICN Course
-EMT-P Refresher Course
Documentation of successful completion of a field internship through an approved paramedic training program which includes 40 ALS patient contacts in a field setting. An ALS contact is the performance of one or more ALS skills, except cardiac monitoring a nd basic CPR, on a patient (each contact must be documented and signed by a county approved preceptor). Field contacts as a Flight Nurse, EMT II, or other prehospital ALS contacts may apply toward the 40 required contacts; in addition, it is highly recommended that training in the following (or equivalent) be completed:
-ACLS - Advanced Cardiac Life Support
-BCLS - Basic Cardiac Life Support
-PHTLS or BTLS - Prehospital Trauma Life Support or Basic Trauma Life
Support
-PEPP or PALS – Pediatric Education for Prehospital Personnel or
Pediatric Advanced Life Support
The knowledge and skills from these courses will assist you in passing the
licensure exam.
Once the EMS Authority has reviewed and approved the above documentation, you will be sent verification to submit with your National Registry of Emergency Medical Technicians (NREMT) Application that you have completed the equivalent training of a paramedic program. In addition, you will be sent a Paramedic License Application – Initial Applicant, and a Statement of Citizenship, Alienage, and Immigration Status for State Paramedic License Application/Renewal (Form IS-01) to complete and return to the EMS Authority with a check or money order made payable to EMS Personnel Fund in the amount of $230.00. Fees include:
-Initial Application Fee $100
-License Fee $125
-State Licensing Match Fee $ 5
You will also be sent a Request for Live Scan Service Applicant Submission form and instructions for a Department of Justice (DOJ) criminal history check (see instructions on our website for submission of fingerprints).
Once you have submitted the documentation listed above and we have received the results of your criminal history check, and NREMT test resultsyou will be issued a California paramedic license in most cases within 10 to 15 days .

So basically, you have to show that you've been taught every skill at the same level as if you were a P-student to begin with, and successfully pass the NREMT-P test including skills labs... good luck on that score.

[medic563]

I actually think Cali is on the right track with this one. It sounds quite fair that the MD/RN/PA should have to know how to do the job of a paramedic before they are allowed to be one.

[VentMedic]

There are several states now that have developed or are in the process of developing the PHRN (Pre Hospital RN) certification. This is due largely to the conflict of practice and scope between the RN and Paramedic. Also, the EMT-P is rarely recognized in Nursing for monetary or career ladder raises. Another advanced nursing certification has the potential to take you up. Read the ENA's position. It will explain some of the potential legalities and conflicts of holding a nursing license and practicing as a paramedic.

It is easier to hold a nursing license and have the skills of the paramedic which can be easily obtained now through the PHRN or similar certification programs. If a nurse is involved in a CCT program ran by the hospital, which many ICUs and EDs are now developing, it is easy to obtain advanced skills such as intubation, IOs, various line placement etc. As a nurse you may then have a broader scope of practice through a state's nursing advanced practice acts. This is the route nurses working for HEMS, CV, NICU and PICU go rather than obtaining a paramedic certificate. If you are a nurse, go forward in education.

[DrParasite]

So basically, you have to show that you've been taught every skill at the same level as if you were a P-student to begin with, and successfully pass the NREMT-P test including skills labs... good luck on that score.hmmmm, big shocker here. they want to know that you as a nurse can operate to the level of a paramedic before they give you paramedic scope of practice? gee, shocker there :rolleyes:

just out of curiosity, how do you transfer people from hospital to hospital? and by that i mean critical people who need to have the level of an RN maintained throughout the transfer from one hospital to the next?

[chickfire13]

Thank you very much for the info the1141man that is very helpful, I am currently in the ER training program at LA county/ USC medical center, after I get a little experience I am going to work on getting my paramedic training may just ending up trying to get in a paramedic program so I make sure I fully understand my scope of practice but will figure it out once I finish ER training

(but yeah the joys of living in So Cal as bass akwards as things are, mountains, beaches, desserts, all within an hours drive)

[chickfire13]

Just realized there are two of these threads cuz I posted one a long time ago and it never appeared so sorry for the repeat

[the1141man]

hmmmm, big shocker here. they want to know that you as a nurse can operate to the level of a paramedic before they give you paramedic scope of practice? gee, shocker there :rolleyes:

California RNs, to my knoweldge, aren't taught to do needle crics or thorascotomies as part of their basic RN curriculum. Therefore, with just the "basic" RN course and no additional training, they do not meet the standard set forth.


just out of curiosity, how do you transfer people from hospital to hospital? and by that i mean critical people who need to have the level of an RN maintained throughout the transfer from one hospital to the next?

Most times, an RN from the sending hospital and unit accompanies. There is no requirement they be an MICN. Some ambulance companies in urban areas employ "Critical Care Transport Nurses", and may require an MICN cert to be employed in that capacity.... however, "CCTN" is not an official EMS title or licensure level here, it's a company-designated job title. Just like if they called their EMTs "Ambulance Emergency Care Practitioners", or "Joyful Mobile Medical Helpers". :rolleyes:

You know, Parasite, for the most part I really don't have a problem with you, but you could use to lose the smart姧 attitude... unless you're from California, and have studied California EMS regulations, laws, and issues, you really don't have a place speaking on the subject any more than I do talking about NJ EMS regs, laws, and issues. No two states are alike...especially when one of them is Commiefornia.

[DrParasite]

You know, Parasite, for the most part I really don't have a problem with you, but you could use to lose the smart姧 attitude... unless you're from California, and have studied California EMS regulations, laws, and issues, you really don't have a place speaking on the subject any more than I do talking about NJ EMS regs, laws, and issues. No two states are alike...especially when one of them is Commiefornia.the original poster posted a question, with the title of RN to paramedic, on an online forum viewed by people from all over the US and beyond. In fact, the exact question was "I am interested in finding out how to become a paramedic now that I am an RN".

if you look at the original post, you will find that there was no mention that the original poster wanted to stay in Ca. or that they only wanted to know about CA. or that they were going to stay on the west coast. maybe before you spout off how your little state works (ok, it's a big state, whatever), maybe you should consider that maybe the original poster wanted to hear how she could get the job done, without dealing with the peoples republic of commieformia.

[the1141man]

LOL In point of fact, that was the exact piece of advice I gave her in a PM: "Get out of here while you still can!" This's the most backwards-***, twisted, POS excuse for a state I can imagine... I certainly plan on leaving ASAP, and never lookin back.

However, if someone says "I'm in California and want to do..." I doubt they're asking what they could do about their situation if they were in Jersey, or Alabama, or Brazil. And if you were going to answer, knowing that the OP is from a specific locale nowhere near your own, you might've prefaced your remarks with, "Well, if you were here in Jersey, you could...(insert advice here)...but I don't know about where you are, maybe someone from there can say."

I understand you're mad cause I picked your post apart, but you gave info that, for her locale was no good. Had she taken your advice, she would've walked into her regional LEMSA office and asked for an EMT-B cert (to which she is entitled, as an RN, without further testing), and gone to apply at various agencies thinking she was going to be an "EMT-RN" (such a thing is simply inconceivable over here)... oops.

Bottom line, she gave no indication that she was moving anywhere, you gave no indication that you were talking about your state's rules, and thusly, you gave bad info...I called you on it, and now you want to engage in an e****ing match. Well, bring it, son, I brought the 3" and a 1.25" smoothbore nozzle... whatchu got? :D

[VentMedic]

But, California is definitely nice for nurses (and many of the allied health professions). There are very few states that a relatively new nurses can make $100k/yr and get their rent paid for. The large hospital systems are attracting nurses from all over the country and offering to pay off their student loans up to $50k. California's nurse-to-patient ratio law, the first of its kind, is also attractive to nurses especially those who have worked in states where a med-surg/tele nurse might have 12 - 20 paitents to be responsible for each shift.

For out of hospital practice, California does not require a paramedic license for a nurse. Their scope of practice is very broad. There are many training and certification programs offered to give the nurse in California the same if not more experience with knowledge and skills. There is a big demand here because it is getting more difficult for hospitals to find reliable and competent agencies to do interfacility transport. If the hospital trains their own nurses (instead of the usual draft pick) to accompany the patients or have a fully organized team, depending on the size and specialties of the hospital, it is beneficial for liability, continuity and safety.

The nurses will also have more access to keeping their advanced skills up to date in a hospital without some of the concerns of insurance that is mentioned when outside paramedics want to practice. It may be the intensivists and/or medical directors of the critical care areas giving individual practical training to the nurses.

Of course, the specialty teams such as CV, Neo and Pedi have been utilizing their extended scope to the fullest for many years.

Nurses are also very popular in the HEMS field. Many of these agencies must still do interfacility transport so a seasoned Critical Care trained nurse is essential. It is much easier for the nurse to acquire knowledge and experience about extrication and scene response through various agencies than to try to get a paramedic 5 years of experience working in direct patient care with balloon pumps, ventilators, CVVH and surgical patients inside an ICU. Many paramedics detest transporting a patient from a subacute vent facility and absolutely cringe at the thought of anything involving dialysis. Knowing more about these patients can only help when learning ICU techniques and the reasoning behind many ICU protocols to spare the lungs and kidneys.

It all depends on what chickfire13 wants to do with a paramedic certificate. If being a FF/medic is the dream, then possibly going through a paramedic program would be beneficial if nothing else for networking with possible future employers or resources. Other than that, over 70% of the paramedic program will be a repeat of A&P, basic acid base, cardiology and an over simplification of many advanced protocols that nurses who have ED or ICU experience already practice.

California is a golden state for nurses. If emergency and ICU medicine is your passion there are many, many opportunities to grow as a nurse.

http://www.ena.org/about/position/PDFs/Role-RN-PreHospital.PDF

http://www.astna.org/Position-papers/HOSPENV.htm

Unlike EMS, nursing has very strong state and national organizations backing them up.

Even EMSA Director Dr. Cesar Aristeiguieta, whose agency licenses paramedics statewide in California, thinks rather highly of nurses in a comment he made earlier this year.

Jennifer Hardcastle, a nurse and spokeswoman for the air ambulance company, said there have been no complaints or concerns about patient care involving Parker. Aristeiguieta agreed, adding that flight paramedics typically work as a team with a flight nurse and "the nurse really runs the show."
http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/117393.html

[Paddiegrunt]

Check with your county EMS and see if you can chalange the paramedic test

[DrParasite]

I understand you're mad cause I picked your post apart, but you gave info that, for her locale was no good. Had she taken your advice, she would've walked into her regional LEMSA office and asked for an EMT-B cert (to which she is entitled, as an RN, without further testing), and gone to apply at various agencies thinking she was going to be an "EMT-RN" (such a thing is simply inconceivable over here)... oops.it's actually quite amazing, that you picked my post apart, but you were talking out of your ***, and didn't even know what the original poster was asking about. and instead of being a real man and admitting that I provided the info as requested, and that you have some adequacy issues that make you want to go toe to toe with me, you are just are going to put the blame on me. nice one, maybe you should actually get out of California and join the rest of the world?
Bottom line, she gave no indication that she was moving anywhere, you gave no indication that you were talking about your state's rules, and thusly, you gave bad info...I called you on it, and now you want to engage in an e****ing match. Well, bring it, son, I brought the 3" and a 1.25" smoothbore nozzle... whatchu got? :Dshe gave no indication she was moving, only that she wanted to possibly change careers.

and since you want to compare hose sizes, I got a portable master stream being fed by dually laid 3 inch lines. and I'm pretty sure my tip is bigger than yours ;)

any other questions?

[the1141man]

it's actually quite amazing, that you picked my post apart, but you were talking out of your ***, and didn't even know what the original poster was asking about. and instead of being a real man and admitting that I provided the info as requested, and that you have some adequacy issues that make you want to go toe to toe with me, you are just are going to put the blame on me. nice one, maybe you should actually get out of California and join the rest of the world?she gave no indication she was moving, only that she wanted to possibly change careers.

Talking out of my ***? Funny--I was thinking the same about you. She asked about how to get a Paramedic license here, and you answered incorrectly. I provided the right answers and a source to look for more info. I don't need to prove anything, the answer itself is clear that I'm the better man. ;)


and since you want to compare hose sizes, I got a portable master stream being fed by dually laid 3 inch lines. and I'm pretty sure my tip is bigger than yours ;)

any other questions?

Nope...but you do realize that you're gonna dump your "booster tank" in about 2 seconds flat, right? You might have GPM flow, but I have staying power. ;) :D

(at this point I'm really just f-in with ya, man)

[chickfire13]

Thanks for the entertainment of the ****ing match boys, for the moment I plan on staying in Cali (as bass akwards as it is) I am working on getting my ER experience at the moment as an RN but the eventual goal is ff/medic (kinda funny though cuz tonight I had to observe a paramedic trainee starting an IV, the joys of a teaching hospital, everyone is learning something)

[the1141man]

LOL You're just weird, Chicky... I've yet to see or hear from an RN wanting to go Paramedic. Known plenty of Ps wanting to become RNs (mostly for the $$$), but no RNs wanting to "step down" to Paramedic status. *shrug*
Good luck either way.

Course the advice about this state still stands: (Ah-nold voice) "GEHT AAUUUUTTT!!!!! IT'S GO-ING TO BLOW!!!!!!"

[VentMedic]

California EMS is a mess. But, a California nurse has opportunities esspecially with the nurse:ratio and money. Nowhere else in the US do nurses have such a strong state political machine. And, where else can one make up to $75 with a totally furnished apartment and car provided? And, you don't even have to come from far away to get these benefits like the days of the old traveler requirements. You just have to go across the street to the neighboring hospital and still work part time at your old hospital if you want. However, it you still want to leave California, it's a great way to quickly pay off a house in another state.

[the1141man]

California EMS is a mess.

You can say that again.

Oh wait, I just did it for you.

Well, one more time: "California EMS is a mess."
Then again, so's the rest of the state, so...*shrug*

[chickfire13]

I want to be a firefighter but I love the medical world (most of the time) so firefighter paramedic seems to be kinda a good idea plus depending on your schedule you can work as an RN part time or per diem as well so yeah seems like kinda a win win situation
Yeah a lot of people say I am weird I am used to it so thank you

[the1141man]

True--you can do Firemedic full-time (10-12 days a month) and have the rest of the time to do per-diem RN shifts. :)

And weird isn't always necessarily a bad thing... [/ePick-up attempt ;) :D] LOL

[MarionMedic]

I actually think Cali is on the right track with this one. It sounds quite fair that the MD/RN/PA should have to know how to do the job of a paramedic before they are allowed to be one.

Yep, what HE said.

RN's are NOT qualified or trained to perform "street medicine" and should have to pass the written AND practical tests.

[ffsharp]

Chickfire13,

Being a ff/medic is the way to go and in my opinion not a step down from working as an RN. I also disagree that the EMS system in Ca is messed up or the state, at least not any worse than everywhere else for that matter. Getting back to the job, I truly believe that your going to find more satisfaction and longevity in the fire service than in nursing. This has been my personal experience. It's hard to beat the time off, respect and because your located in Ca the ff's are among the highest paid in the country. Many of the fire dept's in your area are good and progressive departments and actively looking for female ff's.

[chickfire13]

Yup did a ride along with LA County fire the other day the captain I rode out with said get your CPAT, you're female and an RN you are all set!
(LA county has a really low female ratio) So yeah gotta get my butt back in shape and get a move on.

All these wildfires are really making me wish I was working right now!

[mitllesmertz1]

So yeah gotta get my butt back in shape and get a move on.

Funny, I can think of very few successful firefighters that had to "get in shape" to pass something as pathetically easy as the CPAT.

All these wildfires are really making me wish I was working right now!
Yeah, what a glorious time to be a fireman.
The firemen currently working 72hrs straight, getting their asses kicked, in 98degree heat, are probably very glad that you are so eager to go play with them.
1million people evacuated.
1500 homes burned down.
5 dead.
Gee, did Hurricane Katrina get ya all excited to work in New Orleans?